Is Genta overrated? Why are Audemars Piguet perpetual calendars undervalued? What might Stephen Forsey do next? Do Rolex shops on cruise ships have better stock? What's the future of watch fairs?
1- A deep dive on watches durability. I’m not talking about rolex vs omega robust levels. We would like to know in general how robust are chronographs vs dress watches vs say tourbillons… etc complications vs each other in robustness.
Plus what’s the maximum limitations for the most fragile watches out there, what are the limits of use?
2- I find Vacheron is extremely underrated, why its not talked about as a number 1 brand? The answer could become a case study.
3- Should watch brands be open to clients customization requirements? As long as it doesn’t hurt a brand identity.
As someone who lived in a major world tourism capital, I have had rather disappointing experiences with Rolex ADs. I get the impression their main stock in trade is wealthy Asian or Middle East clients for whom taking a trip to city X three or four times a year is normal and they are able to build AD relationships that way. On one visit I heard the clerk tell a walk-in tourist they had watches to sell...but nothing under 50k. When I asked about being put on an "interest" or "waiting list" for a steel sports model I was told it would be a minimum of 5 years, and not even for one of the hype pieces like a GMT or Daytona.
I actually feel like things have been very light on puns lately, for which I apologise. Sometimes it's all very serious.
Curious to know how Rolex CPO might change your thoughts. The sweet spot between not getting a watch at all and taking your chances with an unknown seller? Or a marked-up offering that's going to leave a sour taste, even though you finally have the GMT you want (for example)?
It might just be me, but the whole CPO thing at an AD gives me a bit of the "ick". For a dealer who would be willing to put me on an eternal waiting list for a desired watch who "just happens" to have a CPO of the exact same model in the next display case for 25% *over* retail... I get that watches are Veblen goods and unlike most things except maybe used Porsches or Ferraris, but to have a dealer sell a used model for *more* than the new thing just rubs me wrong.
Considering I don't "need" any new watches, I'd prefer to wait and hope to get it at retail than pay a flipper or CPO. Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, or just a curmudgeon
Cheers for addressing my BMG Q - much clearer. One item missed - is it similar to, or lighter than Ti? When I hear Ti and Alu may be in it, I get hopeful. Yes, the crazy good polish it takes looks like tungsten (which is heavy AF and a pain to shape, so not better I don’t think)
Re Rolexes on boats .. I’ve an idea.. well, 2 of them.
1. My AD here in the city will put you on a waiting list for infinity for any steel sports watch. One friend has waited years in vain for an Explorer and a Sub.
BUT - you can walk in off the street and buy 2 tone or full precious metal of some men’s watches and most small women’s models
I’d assume cruise ships are stocked with these pricey big margin watches
2. Most ADs are now getting CPO. Mega cash cow. Probably cruise ships and resorts get the dregs of the CPO program.
Like you said - a captive audience feeling spendy and often well to do. Who else needs only a gentle push to buy a white gold CPO Sky-dweller?
One more bonus - you buy a dog at your local AD and they kind of start to owe you some basic steel model. At a resort or on a ship, you sell dog after dog all day and nobody can come back and demand a Starbucks since you won’t see them again - #winning !!
A thousand apologies - the weight! How could I forget!
Data is thin on the ground, however my belief is that most, if not probably all, BMG alloys are lighter than steel but heavier than titanium. Common sense bears that out, given that they're comprised of titanium and a range of heavier elements - but exactly whereabouts on that spectrum is hard to say. I was trying to find an exact weight for the Panerai BMG-Tech to compare to the same size PAM in steel, but brands only publish their watches' weights when they've got something to boast about. As nearly all uses of BMG/liquidmetal have been for partial case construction rather than whole watches - so far - I guess it hasn't been a significant concern. But still, worth checking.
Totally agree about cruises selling over and over to customers who'll never come back... although a lot of people who go on cruise ship vacations do seem to become regulars. Maybe this is why...they're building up boutique relationships!
Further questions:
1- A deep dive on watches durability. I’m not talking about rolex vs omega robust levels. We would like to know in general how robust are chronographs vs dress watches vs say tourbillons… etc complications vs each other in robustness.
Plus what’s the maximum limitations for the most fragile watches out there, what are the limits of use?
2- I find Vacheron is extremely underrated, why its not talked about as a number 1 brand? The answer could become a case study.
3- Should watch brands be open to clients customization requirements? As long as it doesn’t hurt a brand identity.
I come here *mostly* for the puns...
As someone who lived in a major world tourism capital, I have had rather disappointing experiences with Rolex ADs. I get the impression their main stock in trade is wealthy Asian or Middle East clients for whom taking a trip to city X three or four times a year is normal and they are able to build AD relationships that way. On one visit I heard the clerk tell a walk-in tourist they had watches to sell...but nothing under 50k. When I asked about being put on an "interest" or "waiting list" for a steel sports model I was told it would be a minimum of 5 years, and not even for one of the hype pieces like a GMT or Daytona.
I actually feel like things have been very light on puns lately, for which I apologise. Sometimes it's all very serious.
Curious to know how Rolex CPO might change your thoughts. The sweet spot between not getting a watch at all and taking your chances with an unknown seller? Or a marked-up offering that's going to leave a sour taste, even though you finally have the GMT you want (for example)?
It might just be me, but the whole CPO thing at an AD gives me a bit of the "ick". For a dealer who would be willing to put me on an eternal waiting list for a desired watch who "just happens" to have a CPO of the exact same model in the next display case for 25% *over* retail... I get that watches are Veblen goods and unlike most things except maybe used Porsches or Ferraris, but to have a dealer sell a used model for *more* than the new thing just rubs me wrong.
Considering I don't "need" any new watches, I'd prefer to wait and hope to get it at retail than pay a flipper or CPO. Maybe I'm an eternal optimist, or just a curmudgeon
Cheers for addressing my BMG Q - much clearer. One item missed - is it similar to, or lighter than Ti? When I hear Ti and Alu may be in it, I get hopeful. Yes, the crazy good polish it takes looks like tungsten (which is heavy AF and a pain to shape, so not better I don’t think)
Re Rolexes on boats .. I’ve an idea.. well, 2 of them.
1. My AD here in the city will put you on a waiting list for infinity for any steel sports watch. One friend has waited years in vain for an Explorer and a Sub.
BUT - you can walk in off the street and buy 2 tone or full precious metal of some men’s watches and most small women’s models
I’d assume cruise ships are stocked with these pricey big margin watches
2. Most ADs are now getting CPO. Mega cash cow. Probably cruise ships and resorts get the dregs of the CPO program.
Like you said - a captive audience feeling spendy and often well to do. Who else needs only a gentle push to buy a white gold CPO Sky-dweller?
One more bonus - you buy a dog at your local AD and they kind of start to owe you some basic steel model. At a resort or on a ship, you sell dog after dog all day and nobody can come back and demand a Starbucks since you won’t see them again - #winning !!
A thousand apologies - the weight! How could I forget!
Data is thin on the ground, however my belief is that most, if not probably all, BMG alloys are lighter than steel but heavier than titanium. Common sense bears that out, given that they're comprised of titanium and a range of heavier elements - but exactly whereabouts on that spectrum is hard to say. I was trying to find an exact weight for the Panerai BMG-Tech to compare to the same size PAM in steel, but brands only publish their watches' weights when they've got something to boast about. As nearly all uses of BMG/liquidmetal have been for partial case construction rather than whole watches - so far - I guess it hasn't been a significant concern. But still, worth checking.
Totally agree about cruises selling over and over to customers who'll never come back... although a lot of people who go on cruise ship vacations do seem to become regulars. Maybe this is why...they're building up boutique relationships!
This was great. I got to get not only your insights but a peek into what’s on the mind of other collectors.
Thanks Ron! Appreciate it